Vines speaks out against NBC news report

Mar 4, 2003
JONI B. HANNIGAN
Managing Editor

NBC Nightly News BP Photo

JACKSONVILLE (FBW)-Jerry Vines, pastor of First Baptist Church, Jacksonville, broke eight months of silence to speak out against a new media attack portraying remarks he made in St. Louis last June as "preaching hate" against Muslims.

In a statement issued to Florida Baptist Witness Feb. 26, Vines was critical of a Feb. 25 "NBC Nightly News" broadcast, and said he is "embarrassed" for the news outlet.

Related Coverage

Vines Speaks out against NBC News report

Southern Baptist leaders respond

Editorial: Anatomy of a media smear on the Gospel

View the NBC "Nightly News" report on the MSNBC Web site. At the Web site, there is an option to offer viewer responses via email.

Read a Florida Baptist Witness transcript of the NBC "Nightly News report.

The "NBC Nightly News" broadcast portrayed Vines as "preaching hate" against Muslims, but failed to include a portion of the NBC interview in which Vines endorsed religious freedom for all persons.

Anchor Tom Brokaw, at the outset of the program, touted an upcoming segment focusing on Jerry Vines, pastor of First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, with three clipped sentences: "Preaching hate. When words from the pulpit sound like words of war. American versus American."

The targeting of Vines, a former Southern Baptist Convention president, stems from Vines' declaration during the 2002 SBC Pastors' Conference in St. Louis that the Muslim prophet Muhammad was a "demon-possessed pedophile" for having married one of his wives at age 6 and consummating the union when she was 9. Vines later cited Islamic writings known as the Hadith as the source of his statement.

Brokaw, introducing the segment in the waning moments of the broadcast, stated, "Tonight we begin an occasional series visiting American cities and towns as the United States moves closer to war. In the days right after 9/11, understandably, there was a great deal of talk in this country about not blaming the attacks on Islam itself, or Muslims generally. President Bush visited a mosque and talked about the need for tolerance. Apparently, that message didn't reach a powerful Baptist preacher in northern Florida. NBC's Bob Faw tonight on the Christian fault lines in Jacksonville."

Because of a "bold" message from First Baptist, Jacksonville, Faw said, "... some true believers here are terrified. ... Jacksonville's Muslims, devout and thoughtful, complain the atmosphere is being poisoned." Faw noted that one Muslim woman no longer lets her children wear Muslim-looking garb in public. The woman states that Vines' preaching "incites an unrest; it incites an us-against-them type of mentality."

The NBC segment accorded Vines only two sentences: "These statements were correct," Vines is shown saying. "I have not had any rebuttal from those statements, from a scholarly point of view."

And two brief clips of Vines preaching were shown. "Oh, preach, ladies and gentlemen; preach, preacher; preach the Word," Vines was saying in the first clip; in the second: "Ladies and gentlemen, all religions are not equally true, all religions are not [applause breaks into the remainder of the sentence]...."

Vines reacts to broadcast

In his response, Vines took issue with NBC's handling of the broadcast.

"It is my understanding that good journalism seeks to be fair and balanced," said Vines. "'NBC Nightly News' was neither. The story was so poorly done, I am embarrassed for them."

After first declining an interview with NBC, Vines said it was only when a news crew showed up at FBC's annual pastors' conference that he gave in to his "sense of southern hospitality" and let them interview him for several minutes.

"Is it fair that they did not use a single line in which I affirmed my belief in religious freedom, my love for people of all faiths and my great desire that people might come to know salvation which is available alone through Jesus Christ?" Vines asked rhetorically. "Is it balanced that not one single member of my congregation (who have listened to me preach for over 20 years now) was given a chance to say whether or not I preach hate?"

Vines said he has "been preaching the loving Gospel of Jesus Christ for 49 years. I challenge 'NBC Nightly News,' or anyone, to find one single sentence, word or syllable of hate in any message I have delivered during those years."

Commenting on a current trend to categorize statements of religious authority as "hate," Vines said "hate" is not "tell(ing) the truth about any religion."

"It is certainly not hate to say that all religions are not the same, nor equally true (any elementary school child of average intelligence knows that). It is not hate to tell people that Jesus said, 'I am the way, the truth, the life, no man comes to the Father but by me' (John 14:6)."

No one supportive of Vines appeared on the NBC segment, while six critics of Vines were quoted, including Greg Warner, executive editor of Associated Baptist Press, a part of a breakaway movement opposed to the conservative resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention.

Warner, identified only as a member of Jacksonville's Hendricks Avenue Baptist Church, stated: "I think we've got an obligation as Christians to say, 'You know, there's another voice to be heard here.'"

The pastor of Hendricks Avenue, Greg Pope, and two other members were quoted. Pope, who was unidentified in the broadcast, but later identified by a church member said, in the opening of the news segment: "If I were a Muslim, I would be worried." Mary Wynn said, "When I hear that [stance by Vines], it really does cut to my soul as a Baptist." The other church member, Berrylin Houston, said toward the end of the segment, "My head tells me that if we're not careful this will escalate into a religious war."

In addition to the Muslim woman, Jose Rosa of the Interfaith Council of Jacksonville was quoted three times: "My worry is great," and later, "They're preaching hate. They're trying to get people who don't know to hate," and at the end of the segment, "I think it will come to the point of violence. If it gets really bad around the world, the people will use that to go after Muslims."

Faw, the NBC correspondent, noted that Vines' church-going opponents "concede the climate is now so inflamed, a war with Muslim Iraq will only make things worse."

ABP head responds to criticism

Both Warner and Pope responded to the Witness' request for an interview, while Houston and Wynn did not.

Pope told Florida Baptist Witness Feb. 26 that NBC approached Associate Pastor Ken Meyers, who is involved in ongoing interfaith dialogue with members of the Muslim community, to set up the interview with members of the church who shared similar concerns.

Maintaining the views presented on the news show were fairly represented, Pope said he didn't expect "a whole Nightline series," but was satisfied the interviews "did represent the spirit of our church that says, 'we're going to share our faith with Muslims in the context of love and humility, rather than tearing down their religious beliefs."

On the other hand, Pope said: "It is too large a topic to cover in three minutes and so in that sense it is unfair to any perspective, really, to do that, but I wish they could have offered more time to present a variety of Christian voices in regard to Christian Muslim relations."

In addition, focusing on Vines' statement about religions not being equal, Pope added: "I think their focus last night on his statement...on the part of NBC news was misplaced, because you can believe the exclusivity of the Gospel and witness in two very different ways."

Overall, however, Pope said the news report was about how Christians and Muslims relate to each other, regardless of their differing beliefs. "I think it has absolutely nothing to do with the exclusivity of the Gospel. And that is perhaps where the news piece was a little off."

Warner told Florida Baptist Witness he let NBC know of his affiliation with ABP, but was "just one of several church members willing to be interviewed. ...They didn't know who I was when they selected me for it. I didn't tell them to use [my title] or not to use it, but I'm glad they didn't identify my role with ABP."

Journalism professor weighs in

Meanwhile, Marvin Olasky, professor of journalism at the University of Texas and editor of the national weekly World magazine, noted two "prominent questions" in comments provided to Baptist Press after the broadcast.

"First, is it proper for Christian ministers to criticize Islam? When NBC suggests that it's not, NBC is betraying three centuries of press effort in America to advance opportunities for free debate and an open exchange of views. NBC should not try to stifle debate, as if it were the Saudi Arabian Broadcasting Company.

"Second, should Jerry Vines (basing his view on Muslim Hadith, revered stories of Muhammad's life, that appear to depict him having sex with a 9-year-old) have described Muhammad as a 'pedophile'? Rev. Vines said, 'I have not had any rebuttal from those statements, from a scholarly point of view.' I received such a rebuttal in an e-mail exchange with one Muslim scholar who acknowledged that the Hadith collections were unreliable concerning the Muhammad/9-year-old issue. If the Hadith collections are not trustworthy, Muslim leaders should say so publicly, and pastors should respect that honest admission and move on to other aspects of the Muslim-Christian debate. Of course, Muslim leaders might be unwilling to admit that, because if the Hadith are unreliable on this question, might they be unreliable in many other regards as well?"

R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., stated in part that "NBC Nightly News" is out of touch with Christians in America:

"The segment was an exercise in journalistic distortion that demonstrated the lengths to which some in the media will go to belittle and ridicule the faith held by millions of Americans. NBC owes the Christian Gospel - and Dr. Jerry Vines - an apology."

Mohler also noted, "Telling persons that they are lost and in desperate need of the Savior is not hatred, but the most loving message any human could speak to another.

Commenting on the criticisms by fellow Baptists in the segment, Mohler added, "Those who would criticize [Vines] should be honest enough to stand before their own churches and the watching world and tell us what they really believe about the Gospel.

Warner, responding to Mohler in an interview with Florida Baptist Witness Feb. 26, stated: "They didn't consult us about the direction of the story and we didn't have any influence about how they used our quotes. They asked us what we thought about the relationship between Muslims and Christians in the city of Jacksonville and I think our members fairly represented a valid Christian point of view. It had nothing to do with the exclusivity of the Gospel, it had to do with respect for fellow human beings."

Given another opportunity to respond Feb. 27, Warner told the Witness he had further reviewed the NBC segment.

"I would agree that the NBC piece is handled in a sloppy way on a very sensitive topic," Warner said. "I can't defend their editing of it because I think it has created some misunderstandings, both of Dr. Vines' position and of my church's beliefs."

Warner continued by noting, "... we certainly weren't responding to the issue of the exclusivity of the Gospel. That was not the context. ... I do believe that there's salvation only in Christ. ... I believe and think most of our church members believe in the exclusivity of the Gospel."

Pope told the Witness he doesn't think Jerry Vines hates Muslims. "I don't think he's preaching hate towards Muslims, but I think it is perceived that way by Muslims." Whether the broadcast added to that perception, he said: "they labeled it preaching hate and I guess I prefer the word disparaging to hatred when you talk of Mohammed as a demon-possessed pedophile."

About whether the claims of Christ are offensive the non-believer, Pope said: "I don't know that I'd say they are offensive-they can be, to use Paul's words, a stumbling block. I don't think out call is to go out and be offensive. ...No one has been able to prove to me that that brings people to Christ, which I think is our task.

"I think the best way is to sit down one on one and to say, 'tell me what your faith means to you and now let me tell you what my faith means to me. I don't agree with you, but as a freedom-loving American, I am going to give you that freedom to believe as you choose.'"

Responding to Mohler's statement, Pope said: "I don't feel in any way we owe an apology to the Baptist community because I know of many, many Baptists who disagree with Vines' statement ... disparaging Muslims' religion.

"I don't think if you critique Vines' public, national and international disparaging of the Muslim faith-if you disagree with that, you are not saying that Jesus is not the only way to heaven."

Pope said he did not agree the newscast questioned the exclusivity of the Gospel, but insisted it was a program about Muslim and Christian relations.

"The only thing I disagreed with about the newscast was just emphasizing, just pointing out that one statement of Vines-all religions aren't the same," Pope said. "Our issue is solely with how you go about sharing your faith."

Art Toalston, James A. Smith, Sr. and Michael Foust contributed to this article.

Email this Article Print this page

Login ID:
Password:	Forgot password?